The Spring Legion Podcast

What is Woodsmanship? Our Top 10 Tips for Turkey Hunting (BONUS EPISODE)

• Spring Legion Turkey Hunting • Season 4

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This episode reveals the core concept of "woodsmanship" in turkey hunting, emphasizing that knowledge and awareness of turkey behavior, terrain, and strategic positioning significantly improve hunting success. Listeners discover essential rules of thumb for effective turkey hunting, including understanding camouflage, mastering call techniques, and respecting turkey instincts. 

• Introduction to wisdomship in hunting
• Importance of realism in turkey calls
• Tips on positioning and movement in the field
• Understanding turkey behavior and instincts
• Mastering calling techniques for better success
• Key insights on camouflage and visual elements
• The value of terrain learning and adapting to nature
• Reflection on the bond between tradition and advancement in hunting
• Encouragement to practice continuous learning and skills improvement


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Huge Thanks to the following for making this podcast possible:

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Houndstooth Turkey Calls
...

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 1:

What's going on y'all? Welcome back to another episode of the Spring Leisure Podcast. Alongside me is Chase Ferrier and my name is Hunter Ferrier, and the plan is for this to be a bonus episode for a week as we kind of gear towards the—we're in the thick of the preseason. I'd consider it preseason right now, as we lean on into March, kind of mid-February. Our goodbyes.

Speaker 1:

It has been a very long, 28 days and it's about to get a little hectic. The next few months are about to fly by. We know that the next few weeks are going to seem like days, but when the weeks turn to days, that's the uh, the fires really kind of kind of build on up, and the plan is for today we're going to hit on a lot of things at once. So we're going to kind of it's not like a rapid fire session or anything, but it is um, we're going to be covering wisdom ship, whatever that might be, because, uh, everybody's got their own definitions of wisdomship and I do believe we were on Maggie's podcast about a year ago and she asked me what wisdomship was, and that was kind of like asking tell me about yourself. It's hard to put into words, I'm not going to lie, but we're going to dive into a few rules of thumb.

Speaker 1:

I'm hoping to hit on about 10 of them. We jotted down 10 minutes ago that we thought would be worth talking about you good over there. I just had to sneeze, sorry. That means spring is closer than you think. Yep, the allergies are kicking on up. That's the one downside of it and I will gladly endorse some allergies to get near goblin turkeys in the very near future. But yeah, we're going to run through some stuff that I'm not going to say nevers or always or hold truths, but they're things I keep in my mind and I try to discipline myself to these certain aspects of hunting turkeys. Right, so nothing we say we're gonna put a disclaimer here, that it is foolproof, that it is perfect, that it's guaranteed or your money back. But these are some things that I do keep in my pocket, my knowledge pocket, so to speak, that paid dividends, I think, regardless of scenario regardless of where you're hunting, when you're hunting, how you're hunting them.

Speaker 1:

These are. These are some things that I I hold pretty true before we get into it. Just wanted to uh get y'all with a update or two on the spring legion side of things. Uh, as far as I know, at the time of this airing, we're still going to be doing the bundle deal at springlegioncom where you can geta, I think the the all-season bundle is a jacket, a, a pair of pants, gloves, face mask and one of the new hats. Might be missing a thing or two in there, but the other one is the mid-season bundle or the run-and-gun bundle, which exchanges the jacket for a pair of gaiters of your choice. You can save up to 20% on those bundles. All of that, regardless, is under $200, and that's a pretty good deal to me. So it seems like, from what I've been able to see online, folks also think that's a pretty good deal, and that's all I got.

Speaker 1:

We're on cruise control as far as the apparel stuff goes, so y'all ain't getting many updates on that. Y'all know where to find it. Y'all go check it out for yourself. Y'all know where to find us on social medias Spring Legion across everything. The only thing that we have to kind of maybe keep you updated on is youtube videos, because that's kind of uh, I'm not gonna say it's last on totem pole, yeah, but the podcast is above it, right?

Speaker 1:

so we we have more listeners on the podcast than we do viewers on the youtube, because we started the podcast much earlier than the YouTube. So y'all are getting taken care of prior to us worrying about the YouTube stuff. But last week at least we did release a video. It was the best I could do. I'm going to apologize in advance, but it was real turkey hunting. That's the only way I could go about it. It's that or nothing, pretty much. I messed up one morning in about 9.30 or so. That day Changed spots completely, spots completely struck a little drove, two-year-olds up and fun hunting.

Speaker 1:

Y'all just gonna have to listen to it because you can watch it, but the good parts you can be watching my elbow.

Speaker 2:

Oh, you're gonna have to listen to. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying no, you can.

Speaker 1:

Camera skills are great.

Speaker 2:

I haven't seen it yet, nobody has.

Speaker 1:

This is one of them things I told you. I warned you all about it Camera is not our strong suit.

Speaker 1:

Nope, but when y'all are listening to this, I'm going to be in Florida. I think, yeah, headed to Florida at least, and it ain't to hunt turkeys. Your boy is going to disney world. Oh yeah, taking the daughters to disney world first time I've ever been in disney world. I never thought I'd go to disney world, but when you have two little girls and that's all they talk about, you go to disney world. And at the moment I think I'm just heading back. I'm going to be heading back and I'm probably going to pass on me all heading down to Florida to go hunt turkeys.

Speaker 1:

But as much as I love turkey hunting, my priorities are not in the order of turkey hunting than those two girls, so they're at the top. Their birthdays are in March, so we're knocking a bunch of family fun out at once and I'll be coming back right at the beginning of March. Yeah, and then it's on. It's on then. So, without further ado, because we've got a lot to hit on we're going to hop into these rules of thumbs of wisdomship and stuff. But to begin, I can't just leave you hanging on.

Speaker 1:

Wisdomship is nothing. If I had to think of what wisdomship was and I've probably described it 10 different ways depending on who's asking and the scenario and the situation and the setting them in. But as of right now, right here, if I'm thinking of woodsmanship, I'm considering it to be in line with the gut feeling of when and where turkeys will be, what they're doing and how to best use the resources at hand non-bought resources I'm talking about. I'm talking about the woods themselves, learning how that works and learning how animals behave in the woods, so to speak. Okay, it's, it's everything from where they, what turkey, what acorns turkeys actually eat, versus you know when you're trying to find the trees to be around, if you know food source. What's a food source to them? What do they not like? What do they do like? And um more so to me and this is just personal opinion how the human interacts in that.

Speaker 1:

How to, how to get around, how to use elements, how to use the birds advantages to your advantage, almost to not take advantage of, but to understand that they are instinctual animals. They, they just know what puts them at the least amount of risk. They just know what feels comfortable to them. They know what feels safe to them. I don't know if that's learned or born with kind of stuff I'm not a biologist but it's all learned to me and it's all learned to whoever's hunting them. You got to connect a bunch of dots, so wisdom ship is the dots of which you connect I would say okay, it's up to you to connect them, but this stuff's always there.

Speaker 1:

It's provided for free. If you could ever sell wisdom ship, there wouldn't be a turkey on earth, right? Because wisdom ship will kill way more turkeys than anything you buy on a store. You know store shelf and we sell stuff, not stuff to pull them in, but stuff to. I'm going to tell you whether or not you're wearing a spring legion jacket or not. It don't matter. If you don't know what you're doing in the woods, I'll be the first to tell you that. So that's where we're going to try to hit on a couple things and some stuff I might be wrong on.

Speaker 1:

I've been wrong on these rules done before and I get proved wrong on them. Buy turkeys pretty regular. Then I just have to adjust, right. You know you put an astropine, go most or often or rarely and carry on. And don't forget that. Um, and I have figured out that there is nothing in this world a turkey will never do and there ain't nothing a turkey will always do. They're best considered to be often and rarely if you're going to hold a conversation about them. So for the duration of this podcast, everything's to be considered often and rarely, not never and always. Uh, first one on the on the little list here we've jotted down was walking the other side of the road, because we've talked about that before and we've had a couple dms about that because we mentioned it. We've probably talked about all of these in two years ago maybe, I don't know, but in the most recent episodes we kind of we pick up as if everybody heard the other ones, right?

Speaker 1:

you know, yeah, and not everybody probably has right um, and some of our better episodes are probably from two years ago, when we're we're telling stuff for the first time and we're not necessarily building on something that was mentioned then, right? So I encourage you all to go back and listen to it. Don't listen to the first five, maybe.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, they're a little embarrassing. Give us a couple months, yeah, let us figure out the mic.

Speaker 1:

We're going to keep them up there for the sake of storytelling and just so you all know how far we've come. Ever think we're a bunch of rookies? Yeah, readjust your definition because we were way more rookie than oh god, but walking on the other side of the road. What we mean by that is if a turkey is gobbling to your left and there's a road, if there's a big trail, there's a any type of path if he's on your left, right, opening that you're walking broader than you are, tall, right, so to speak.

Speaker 1:

So if you're six feet tall, if it's six feet wide or so, that's wide enough to to see a silhouette and honestly, anything really. If you're walking on the edge of a shadow or something like that, anything that's a change of color behind you, if it's only three feet, they can see from your knee down moving but what?

Speaker 1:

we mean is to walk on the opposite side of that road, so walk on the right hand side of that road. Just we'll call it a gravel road for all I know white gravel behind you and you're wearing camouflage. They're going to pick up a silhouette of somebody walking there if they're on the left side of you, but if you walk on the right side of that road, yeah, you're putting the dark backdrop behind you right, and you're not just you, just, you're not making a.

Speaker 1:

It's going to look like a shadow walking. Honestly, that applies to everything. That applies to every opening you can think of. If it's a field, if it's anything you know, you can walk on the right side of the road, but if you leave any gap at all behind you between you and the real, actual backdrop, they're probably going to pick it up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, drop right, they're probably gonna pick it up. Yeah, especially if you're moving left or right to them, and and if the woods are open enough, I'll take a step or two into the woods on the opposite side and walk up the road. Yes, I mean, if that's, if that's an option, that's do it. That's the. You know. Don't think, oh, I need to be walking in the path.

Speaker 2:

You know, I try not to walk in roads if I can help it but you got to walk down one because it's a lot quieter and you don't that turkey doesn't know you're there, yet you know that's the way to go this past year.

Speaker 1:

I ain't talking about it yet, but, um, I don't even know if you know about this. I I do the same. If there was not a way I could walk in the woods, I had to walk in a wide open field and I had to walk on the rightest hand side is the exact scenario actually they, they were on the left, left back, and I had to walk on the right and there was no way I could. I mean it dropped off. I had zero feet to walk in. It was nothing but thicket and a creek at the bottom and there was no way. I tried for the first 15 yards and I mean I sounded like a bear in there. That's why I had to get out. I didn't shoot them. Turkeys, oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes you just can't get the move.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I got as far as I could, but that 15 yards probably cost me. It eased up daylight, just I'm talking, I can see the spot I wanted to get to and I had to pull the plug. I said, all right.

Speaker 1:

And they flew down, but I think they saw, enough you know, a body of some kind moving over there. Enough I didn't know where they were roosted at the time, I just knew. Last I saw them they were headed towards the creek on the backside, so they were roosted right there, looking over the field that I was trying to walk through. Now that doesn't go to say and I've done this before too if they're roosted somewhere, if they're roosted near a field, I ain't walking in the daggum field, I don't care.

Speaker 2:

I just let them get on the ground, don't let them have that advantage of height.

Speaker 1:

Weight. You're going to bump them if you walk where they can see you, obviously, but unless you get in there at 3 am, which is an option, say they are on the ground or whatever, I walk through the middle of the field too. If I'm say they are on the ground or whatever, I walk through the middle of the field too, especially if I'm trying to get somewhere and I know they can't see the field. I don't.

Speaker 2:

I don't waste time, yeah making around, making a loop, and not walking through.

Speaker 1:

I walk if you know where they're at already, or if you know they can't see that, and sometimes you just know right, you might bump a turkey you didn't know about, but as long as one's hammering 100 yards on the other side, you know, into the woods, I'll walk right down the middle of it, you know it's a play about years.

Speaker 1:

I'm not hunting the non-goblin one, I'm hunting that goblin one right, um, now I'm hunting the places I might have no plans to hunt ever again. So, right at a private camp, I probably bumping them for no reason.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but you know we got one day permission. Yeah, you kind of yeah, gotta send it.

Speaker 1:

I ain't uh, I ain going to go down every scenario because it's different for every one of them. But that also kind of goes with staying in the shadows, sitting in the shadows and seeing where the shadows are going to be, and, to your best ability, even before the sun's up. Knowing where that shadow is going to be is a big deal, because then you can't really move. If they are closing in and this happens every year you sit down, you it's perfect scenario, but you forget that the sun ain't up yet and by the time you know you be patient, you did your calling right, you did everything right, and he's coming in. He's just taking a while and that sun's picking up and all of a sudden, by the time he's 120, you're glowing.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you know you're right in the middle of something. There't no way you can't shift around and get on that tree. You know 15 yards away, he's going to see you either way, right? You're just kind of in a bind, and a lot of times that's a double-edged sword, because I do believe turkeys are more apt to move away from the sun. They don't want to walk into the sun because it also hinders their vision. So they were much. They're much more comfortable walking with the sun at their back than they are walking directly into the sun, just like you would be driving to work every day, right you know more enjoyable to have it at your back.

Speaker 1:

You know, some of them times I'm like I'm about to find a new route. I'm like I'm driving next 30 minutes. I can't do this every day. Just drive directly into the sunlight, um, because you're about stressed out by the time you get to work.

Speaker 2:

Anyway you're worn down from.

Speaker 1:

You know, gripping the steering wheel, not knowing what's on the other side of it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, um, and that's a big thing to key in on right there um, I don't want that to go slip through you know yeah, if you, if you have, well, if you're working a bird and you can get to where his son, the sun's in your face and at his back and you're also in the shadow. That's when it's hard to find a shadow Yep, unless it's straight above you and you've got a good canopy over the top. That's an 11 o'clock situation.

Speaker 2:

That's a good place to be on 11 o'clock, right, you know, almost, or I guess the sun would be straight up then, so it wouldn't necessarily be in his eyes the guess the sun would be straight up then, so it wouldn't necessarily be in his eyes, the more I'm talking this out. Um, you know I'm saying you, you kind of want some form of canopy over you right if you're planning to do that hard to do in the early season.

Speaker 1:

It's tough yeah, this ain't easy to do, you know it ain't like it's a this tree versus that tree.

Speaker 1:

You might have to move 80 yards right right, you know, to get out of the sunlight. Um, if I have my others, I would say I they're less hardwired to walk away from the sun than they are to see a human sitting in the sun. So if I had to pick one or the other, I'll sit where he might have to walk in the sun a little bit. Yeah, versus me, have to sit in the sun a little bit, because you better be freaking still if you go sit in the sun yeah, if that scenario does come up, I mean you, just you better get comfortable now yeah you better or not?

Speaker 2:

you better just get disciplined right because you, you ain't gonna be able to blink for two hours you know, maybe or however long it takes and and I've been called in that situation before and turkey.

Speaker 1:

If you're sitting in a spot, which I try to sit at anyway, the turkey should not be able to see where you're at until he's 30 yards from you anyway. That's easier said than done.

Speaker 1:

Obviously you don't know the direction he's actually going to come from. You just think of probable ones, and that goes a little wiser too, on how a turkey works. I ain't going to tell you how that happens, because the second I do he's gonna do something different. You're gonna have to hunt turkeys long enough to figure out the tendencies of them, right, um, but another thing about the shadows is the uv spectrum, which is a big deal, and folks really don't talk about this enough. It's a lot more than laundry detergents. Oh yeah, um, uv is, you know, ultraviolet. You know it's a whole new spectrum, like we see whatever it is red, green, blue, violet. You know it's a whole new spectrum, like we see whatever it is red, green, blue, yellow.

Speaker 1:

I don't know what a human does, but I know a deer sees like everything in, like a blue haze maybe or something. They can't see orange, so to speak. Right, right, turkeys can see orange. Turkeys can see everything. They can see your thoughts and they can see what you regretted doing last week. Right, they can. They can see everything, and they can also see stuff that we can't see, which is the UV spectrum. A whole new ball game there's already explained to a human, obviously Right, in the best way possible is, like you know, you've been in a bowling alley or skating rink or anywhere where there's black light, stuff glows, and like. There's stuff that glows neon orange, that is painted tan Right, it just depends. I mean logic. Detergent looks blue, but when you put it under UV light it looks….

Speaker 2:

Highlighter. Yeah, right, I mean very, very bright.

Speaker 1:

A lot of times that'll happen, right, I mean very, very bright. Um, a lot of times that that'll happen. Now I figured that out. I mean I heard some old timer talking about it one time but I'd bumped the turkey it was the one it took me so long to kill two or three times.

Speaker 2:

He rounded the corner and I mean took off so it was because I was wearing a jacket and it was an old jacket, you know, a good mazio from the 90s jacket, that ain't.

Speaker 1:

You know that I wear all the time, but I had gotten some kind of detergent and it was, I mean, down the chest yeah I couldn't see it until and I put a black on, went home.

Speaker 1:

Well, there's your answer right there. Um, if the sun is shining on you, that stuff glows, it all kind of glows, everything kind of glows. If you turn a black light on in this room right now and everything is uv dead, you can still see it, it just looks very dark right, um, it's not just ain't highlighter, and the difference is the is the light, and that has something to do with the greenery around you too.

Speaker 1:

Like certain plants, all look the same. Some plants stick out, and you know you can be unlucky and sit. Your backdrop is one that glows not glows, but it's much brighter to them.

Speaker 2:

Right, and you end up looking like a black blob, you know the opposite.

Speaker 1:

I don't know that detail.

Speaker 2:

I don't think that's going to happen to you very often. I've never noticed that.

Speaker 1:

But sitting in the sun definitely. Ramps it up. Yeah, it's like a Everything, from your skin to everything Glow in the dark thing.

Speaker 2:

You know, you charge it up a lot, right?

Speaker 1:

yeah, I mean I don't know about that, but um, but that's. That's the main, main reason I said shadows is because anything you're wearing that ain't a real plant, is a fabric, is something man-made, is something not natural. It's going to look a little different when you're in the sunlight I'm not talking to human eye, to a bird that's going to look a little different. Um no, I don't know the colors they actually wind up illuminating, but I know, they, they definitely stick out.

Speaker 1:

So, um, regardless, again, I try to. I mean, and I'm big on bottom land and dad told us this and it convinced me when I was younger.

Speaker 1:

You know, all the patterns will kind of work Right, but also, the more you add leaves and stuff like that, it's kind of like you know what if? Or you kind of got to pick your spot to sit Right. You know, and he's big on you know, use something, because that would. I think what he was getting at was he didn't want us to handicap ourselves by saying we have leaves on our clothes, so we don't need leaves between us and the turkey. I'm saying we have leaves on our clothes so we don't need leaves between us and the turkey, kind of right. You know, when you think of it that way, if you're able, you know, if you're able to blend in completely, you might pick a more open spot than you should. I think that's what he was getting at was, in a way, making us sit in and cover more, so natural cover, because you got to layer the, the branches going all the way out. So that's why I like bottom land.

Speaker 1:

Um, there's a lot of other reasons to like it, but it is so versatile. It can go on the tree, you can go on the ground, it can go with. You know, anything if it's, if it's green in the woods. There's green between you and turkey. It's going to kind of. It's going to be the green leaves on your bottom land, so to speak.

Speaker 2:

There's real and they're layered there's green leaves on bottom land.

Speaker 1:

The actual leaves of the woods.

Speaker 2:

will, you know, fill in that void base of a tree that you're sitting on 99% of the time, which is what I try to settle.

Speaker 1:

Obviously, right, yeah.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, you lay on the ground or whatever. You look like a log laying there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You get broken up by what's around you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right yeah, and you know, that is why I like leaf jackets, because it does break up your outline. That's a big deal 100 percent. Um, yeah, but um and, and to be sure that sitting on big trees rather than little, that's a rule of thumb right there it's a big rule of thumb you know, if the diameter of that tree you're leaning against is six inches wide and your shoulders are broader than six inches wide, you're gonna look like a chunk of a tree with arms and a leg right now.

Speaker 2:

And the other thing with that, you can be shaking that tree. Yes, and that is a big thing. I don't know if you wrote it down I didn't, but that's a good one. Tree shaking, yep, that will give you away and I will slap somebody's hands if you crawl on a creek or something like that, you and you grab a sapling to pull yourself up. You better grab a root way before that. I'm judo chopping you before you touch it. Hunter will kick you down that creek.

Speaker 1:

Uh-uh, do not grab that sapling, because the first thing you're going to do is shake that whole tree 20 foot in the air, yep, and let everybody on the other side of that creek know something's about to happen.

Speaker 2:

Something's coming from over there.

Speaker 1:

Everybody look at that tree, yeah, and then they watch you walk out of that creek, yep, so use roots. I will claw my hand in the dirt, I will do everything.

Speaker 2:

I will fall back down that creek 10 times before I grab a sapling. I mean you may can grab the sapling at the base or something, but don't shake the top of it yeah. That's the main objective. Don't let it shake and don't sit on a tree that's going to shake every time. You, you know, put your hands together to do a slate call or something of that nature, you know?

Speaker 1:

That's a good point. And even moving, if I'm moving through the woods I'm rolling with, I'm hitting circle button, I'm spinning if I have to before I push a limb and let go and let it.

Speaker 2:

I'm rolling with everything, and it works a lot better with briars too roll, spin with them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, don't try to just rip through them, you know, but let it's almost like a, not a dance or an art, but almost like you've got to let the, the woods and the foliage, they're the boss yeah, you know you're going through it. You know they're the current that you're kind of floating through, so to speak.

Speaker 2:

Um but yeah, I mean the. What we're trying to say with that to begin with was the diameter of the tree you're sitting on right picking a bigger tree is going to block everything.

Speaker 1:

Yeah and and I, and I will over analyze everything, but I'll make sure that tree has the option for me to go around too, so it can be the backdrop if it comes up here, whatever, and I'll scoot my butt, even not needing to, just to make sure I'm not, you know, jutting out too much. You know you can still shoot them. It depends. I know that y'all hate hearing me say that, but it depends on where the earliest the turkey can see me. If it's 200 yards, I'm I'm thinking a lot more things than I am if I know the soonest thing you see me is 30. You know it doesn't matter nearly as much if the soonest thing you see me is 30. But, like another example, is not sitting in the road.

Speaker 2:

You know if you're hoping he'll come down the road and I don't hope they come down the road because they never come down the road, they come to the side of the road and look in the road like a smart being would do.

Speaker 1:

So I kind of gear myself to shoot one side of the road and if you want to spend the other one, I try to call him to the road and shoot him right across it very rarely does he flop right in that road, right? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, um, but he sure ain't gonna flop in the road or anywhere near it if your legs are sticking out into the road yeah you know it's.

Speaker 1:

It's very easy to shoot from there, but it's very easy to be from there, but it's very easy to be seen. You got to, and I even have to remind myself this a lot. I'll try to get where your options seem to go from. Say, there were 100 options and you're walking down the road and he's on the other side of it and you're trying to get where he can shoot the second. You take one step in there, those 100 go in the 50, and then one more step. They're 25, 25 and by the time you've set up you're like well, I got five percent of the opportunities I did, but that five percent is what you want right you know, if he does come that road you'll shoot him passing by.

Speaker 1:

Just have one lane. He has to walk down that once he's on the road, if he's or he's going to come in the woods and then it's wide open. It's normal woods you're hunting like you're hunting in the woods, yeah, um, and that road has, and I would consider that being a higher road, like on top of a ridge of some kind, you know if it's, if it's in the bottom, just count it out, I don't even exactly like if I get any there, a creek or something you know um, you can walk in the creek and I, like I do kind of prefer to get on the opposite side of a four-leaf path than the turkey.

Speaker 2:

Like I say, you know you're walking down it birds on your left. I'm probably going to set up 15, 20 yards in the woods on my right because you know, a lot of the roads here are made on the high ground so it's a little bit of a decline on each side. So he's going to have to come up and then into the road to cross it, to look down in there, and it kind of creates that field edge perspective of you know, I can see the road but I can't see the other side of the road and if I'm calling from 20, 15 yards in there, a lot of times.

Speaker 2:

He'll at least get close to the road to try and look over the road right into, and what you're doing is setting a stage right kind of deal which is why mr mayfield put it, and that's the best words I've heard it been put in was set a stage, set it.

Speaker 1:

I've said set a table before, but it's more of a stage for him to be on you know, know, allow him a chance to do certain things. But I'd also and that'll kind of segue in there another one in between. It was never set up facing at the turkey.

Speaker 1:

You know, if you're right or left-handed, unless you're ambidextrous, maybe, but even then I wouldn't. I'm putting the turkey as it moves. I move a little bit at a time and keep that thing. I'm right-handed, so I keep the left open. Um, it's hard, it's hard to shoot one at 12 o'clock. You gotta, you gotta do some pretzeling to get your body turned. But, um, but what you're mentioning is kind of allowing him to have a spot to get, which is a reason to come and come to where I need him to to look for me but making that spot comfortable for him.

Speaker 1:

He can always get, he can always fly on the tree and fly to you. It's just going to be kind of not the route he wants to take.

Speaker 2:

You know Very very safe route for him, but it's just a lot of turkeys.

Speaker 1:

Don't fly, for you know eagles. They just. They fly to roost, really, and to get over water maybe, but something scares them. They tend to run before they fly unless it's short.

Speaker 1:

Up to us you know, because they're pretty fast birds and they're big birds. It's hard to get through a bunch of branches, I would imagine. But what I'm getting at is and this is another rule of thumb right here a pretty big deal is, you know, allowing the turkey to have the high point, but keeping that high point within 30 yards. You know what I'm saying. If you will, if you get and I do both sometimes Sometimes you don't have a choice. But if you get on the highest point, if you get on the very tip top A, he can skyline you sometimes, unless you have a sure enough backdrop. Or if he's coming down, it it's a whole different story. But I mean crap, crap, five feet on either side and you got a real good backdrop and he can't. So you know you're doing math there. But but the other thing is and I'm not positive on this this is something that I'm I'm currently wondering. I'm gonna keep in the back of my mind.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes, when I am on the highest, highest point, I'm on where the turkey wants to be. He don't come up there. It's because I've taken his advantage away. I've taken his comfortable spot away. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Most times he wants to lay eyes on you, but he wants to be the one who has the advantage, who has the spot where he can, especially if you're hunting a hunted bird. He wants to get in a spot that's open, comfortable for him, where he can see where you're at and also get out of dodge. If he's got to get out of dodge or they're a licking species they like to display.

Speaker 1:

You know if you're sitting in the display spot it's kind of like the seat's taken, you know he's like well, now when I go display, you're kind of killing my fun here. You know I want to do this and I want you to come to me like you're supposed to do. You're sitting in this spot he wants to be at and well, you just kind of shut the door on him. But putting that A not 80 yards away, you know sitting. You know midway up a ridge is, you know some people say, do that. But if it's a 160-yard ridge and you're 80 yards from the bottom, 80 yards from the top, you're banking on him walking in the middle, which he will. He will, yeah, but I would much rather be 30 yards from the top, where he will most likely want to get, and allowing him to walk up. A lot of times you'll shoot him on the way up there. He'll be more more likely walk uphill than he is downhill, just because that's what turkeys do.

Speaker 1:

If you followed along on the spring legion youtube channel these past few seasons, you've probably watched us hunt turkeys in a variety of north mountain gears, leafy jackets. Y'all should also know by now that we wouldn't be wearing one if they didn't absolutely work, available in a number of camo patterns, with or without a hood, and either a full zip or half zip option. North mountain gear has combined all-day comfort with the groundbreaking leafy concealment. That's actually quiet. You can check out their entire line of leafy suits today at northmountangearcom. But not getting on the very tip tip top, I don't. They don't. I've never had it happen. I'm sure it's happened to some folks, but I've never had it happen. I'm sure it's happened to some folks, but I've never had them approach uphill, up a ridge or up something like that and just stop and start strutting in the middle, unless it's a short enough bench or shelf or something like that where they're used to doing, that they don't just stop and you know halfway sideways and start strutting.

Speaker 1:

They're getting to a spot, then doing it and if you you need to shoot him on the way up or get let him get up, start doing that, and then you hit the silence button and you get the. You know whatever you got to do to tip that thing from 211 degrees to 212 degrees to make him walk another 40 yards or however much it is. Once he's on top, it's a new ball game. When he changes elevation oh yeah, 100, you know, and that all that elevation is is respect to your butt.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Higher, lower and stuff like that. It don't matter how high or how low he is, it's in respect to you. He can be really high on a mountain. If you're above him, he's low. You work him like you would a river bottom bird. You know? Another one Don't use calls. You're not good at using Bingo. That's the hardest one for y'all to hear, because that's the hardest one for me to hear. Oh yeah, just that ain't the time to practice your call and you gotta. You gotta sit back and go. What am I good at? And just do that and polish the other ones in the truck or at the house or wherever, but not in the turkey boys. And it took me a long time to get that to my head. I knew it was true to be, you know it was a fact.

Speaker 1:

I needed to stop, but I still wanted to do it anyway. Even when a turkey wasn't around, I'd do it, but a turkey's always around in my mind. If you've got him fired up, use a box call. If all you can use is that box call You've got him fired up using a box call.

Speaker 2:

If all you can use is a box call Right. Don't throw a terrible yelp in there.

Speaker 1:

Just use a box call. Yep, you'll call him with a box call.

Speaker 2:

Box call sounds a lot like a turkey Mm-hmm. And you know, and that's what everybody always says, like I can't blow a mouth, call. You know, I'm scared, I can't. Well, yeah, we'll finish one way faster than you trying to yelp badly at him. You can find some leaves. Yeah, you know that's, that's what I do.

Speaker 1:

A lot and it's not because, like I'm a wisdom, I scratch and don't cause. Like no, if I call, there's a 50 50 chance this is gonna be good or bad. I don't know. You know I hadn't used his mouth all morning, right, if I've called him up with the mouth off. I'm been using all day and I know I hadn't used his mouth all morning, right, if I've called him up with the mouth off. I'm been using all day and I know I'm comfortable, confident in it, I'm good.

Speaker 1:

But when it's been sitting inside of my cheek all day and I'm like you, know, I'm cotton, mouths all get out and dehydrate and everything I've gotten this far using whatever other.

Speaker 2:

Call yes later about if I don't have my hand, if I can't get my house late.

Speaker 1:

I'm just moving leaves, you know, because if I'm I don't want to mess it up by doing something that was uncalled for. I'm not trying to be cute out there.

Speaker 1:

I'm trying to kill a turkey, and just because so-and-so is good at a mouth call or you're with so-and-so who is good at a mouth call and you want to show them that you're not as bad as you used to be, or whatever, let the guy who Gary has a daggum box call I think he got it from Walgreens or something and this is the best box call I've ever heard in my life really, and I'm with. I'm with him. I'm like I'll do that thing again. Um, you know I'll call some, but I'm I like that and you know it'll get a turkey to gobble.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um and it just, I'm just like I can't find one, but it was pretty sweet. Um, he's had I think the first time we went hunting together and it sounds good. I don't know what it's called or anything, but it was a. You can tell it's an off-the-beaten-path brand or something like that, I feel like. But since that day it sounds just as good as the last season it did the year before. But I'm not going to say it's real dumb, but it is one thing. If you can do it with your mouth, call. If it ain't nothing but a, it's hard to mess that up Right, a turkey can hear it and that's a turkey sound. He don't have to hear an assembly yelp right there.

Speaker 2:

if he's closing in, he just needs to know that you're veering him. You're not you know, and that kind of brings up the don't bring excitement to a room that's not excited.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know or whatever we said a couple weeks ago. You know, don't you know, match your temp match temp. Yeah, if they ain't gobbling a lot, don't just get one gobble out of him, and then you know that he's gonna shut up, and not in a good way, yeah yeah, you can, and I believe you can fire him up and you can induce, you can change their temperature. It's got to be gradual though to an extent. Yeah, but you've got to do it with purpose.

Speaker 1:

There's got to be a purpose behind it. It ain't the popping on the mouth call. It's kind of sometimes doing that will make his feet move and come right to you. A turkey knows where you're at most times. The silence will sometimes confuse him and have him go higher or something like that to see where he might have been. But you know if he's 150 yards or more away?

Speaker 2:

I want him to know exactly where I'm at if he's 30 yards away.

Speaker 1:

I do not want him to know exactly where I'm at. If he's looking for me, right, he's gonna be able to see me way before I see him most times. Um, and another thing don't call after god. I got her looking at you if you can see a good ways and you see his head up looking do not go. And he go.

Speaker 1:

He just shifts his head to three, three oh five o'clock instead of three o'clock, and now he's like there ain't nothing there, yeah that's odd, because I can see everything for 300 yards and that turkey just sounded like she was 70, you know, they don't buy the whole. I'm behind this tree for two hours maybe for a minute, but not forever. You just about have to let him walk behind something and then call.

Speaker 2:

Or put his head down.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, or put his head down or move or strut or something Gobble.

Speaker 2:

While he's gobbling, maybe, yeah, you pray for a woodpecker that's. I mean that just that shows always set up with shooting. I mean I know you can't always, but try your best to get you up that if he's got a blow drown out there and you couldn't get to it, you know I understand that. But if you saw that blow down out there 70 yards and it was between you all two, and you didn't get to it.

Speaker 2:

That's your fault and that's going to hang him up out there 70, 80 yards. That's your fault for not putting a barrier between the two of you in range.

Speaker 1:

And I haven't done this before. This was two years ago. Maybe it was a push pile of stuff. It wasn't a cut over. I don't know what they were doing. I guess they just did some work on the place yeah um, the only place. I think it was actually pretty far from there, but I guess they were gonna burn it or something, I don't know. But they made a big brush pile and, um, turkey was far and I, I, I mean, I walked standing straight up between having that between me and him.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if I it was wide open, this was up north and I kept that between us and I got there and I saw him and it was east, west and north, where all the woods say we're at my south. I kept that thing and I started doing the whole monkey in the middle thing. Oh yeah, I just kept moving, I kept on my feet and he'd be going left and I'd keep going the other way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just he was working on until he working until I let him get to where he could walk the same ridge. I walked him, I walked right back down and I shot him. But I knew there was nothing between me and him and he wasn't going to buy the hole. Surely she's going to walk around it, but me being able to move, I think threw a little bit of realism in there and it was on me as he worked this wood line.

Speaker 1:

He was walking away like all right, two more steps and I'll see you. Right, two more steps, I'll see you. Like what the world you know I still hear now she's out there looking where I was at. You know now he's kind of getting like fast walking he's like okay, let me get back up there as soon as he got back up there.

Speaker 1:

There I was kind of deal, yeah, um, but yeah that, and then um but, but silence is natural. Anything you do with a call, even no matter how good or bad you are, is you're risking messing it up yeah, you're.

Speaker 2:

You know, I mean, and I'm pretending- to be something that you're not I mean one thing I can tell you 99 chance if he gobbled and actually answered you. He knows what tree you're on absolutely from the first gobble yep and knows exactly how to get there.

Speaker 1:

It just depends on what he's got to deal with to do so yep, and how well you pick that tree, and that's why I like to pick that tree before he knows I exist in this world, because once he knows you exist, you're flirting with it at that point no matter how far he is, and if I do have to change, I'm not doing it in between gobbles, I'm getting a gobble out of him. I will you know, wreck havoc, raise cane until I get the gobble, just for me to move.

Speaker 2:

And I've had them. You know they gobble at my first call series. And then I'm like man, you know they gobble at my first call series and then I'm like man, you know I need to move down another 40 yards. I got time and that bird walked smooth past me to where I first called from somehow or another.

Speaker 2:

I mean just nothing I can do in between to stop him because he's made up his mind to go to that pin that point, that that oak tree on the curve, that's where he wants to be, because that's where he first heard that hen and screw everything else in between. You know, and until he gets there he's not going to work back. You almost have to let him pass you and then he'll be like maybe that is that hen that I was looking for. I'm gonna go. Let me go back down there. I've had that happen like once or twice you know a weird situation.

Speaker 2:

I couldn't figure out why he wasn't, didn't continue to respond to my call as I was still calling to him. You know three or four more series and you know, then he gobbles again right where I first started that kind of a weird thing.

Speaker 1:

That doesn't happen all the time, but I've had a good to keep in mind that it can happen. Um, but that, but one of the getting near and towards the end here but don't call, then move right. That's peppy of mine is calling and then going. Well, you didn't answer in the move, like you just told everything in this boy's look at you and then you're gonna move.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's one I gotta discipline myself on I'm always bad too now, if you're walking something and trying to get a gobble out at 3 pm and I'm a little lax on it, you know usually they're going there's a shot kind of gobble. You know if you're, you know you know in the middle of the afternoon he's gonna gobble up the first one or whatever you're trying to do. Um, you're not trying to sweep one off of a limb right. Um, I'm okay walking right after those, just to. You're trying to find a trick to hunt, but if you know a turkey's there and he ain't answering in a while.

Speaker 1:

So you call once or twice, and this goes back to last week's. We're talking about the story Sleazy was telling me at the elevator that day. Right, you know he didn't call, he just scratched his leaves and that turkey drummed at him. Mm-hmm, who knows what would happen if he would have called. What would happen if he had called? You know, he might have blown his eardrums out yeah turkey might have blown his eardrums out, who knows?

Speaker 1:

yeah, you're about to know where he's at, but, man, it's good to you know let him tell you where he's at before you move, instead of calling. Then him say he wouldn't have drummed and you, you called and he's gonna give it a minute. And he's sitting there looking right at the tree you're at and you have no idea. He's 30 yards to your left. He's just sitting there going like.

Speaker 1:

I swear that he didn't sound like she was right right there you know you're in a good spot, you're in the shadow, you're still wearing, you know, bottom land and everything, and face mask all the way up. And well, you stand up. It don't matter what you're wearing or how good of the shadow he is. When you stand up from the tree he's gone. Yeah, um, but at least you got a chance. If he's not looking at that tree, he's pecking the ground or something, or worried about a squirrel on the ground, maybe, right, you got zero chance if you make him look at you, then stand up or walk or whatever. But, um, but the last one that we have written down, we might come up with you in a minute, but we're nearing our time, since we are having a couple episodes this week.

Speaker 1:

Um is not handicapping. The swing, the swing of your gun, yep. When you sit down, when your butt hits the ground and all this stuff can be. In effect, you've got a tree broader than your shoulders are. You're in shadow. You've done everything right. If you're approaching the turkey, I don't like going left or right on him, I like going right at him or right away from him, if I can help you. I don't like going left to right on him, I like going right at him or right away from him, if I can help you limit the chances there. But if you sit down and there's a sapling to your right or a sapling to your left and you take your 180-degree radius and cut it into a 34-degree radius, you ain't going to kill a lot of turkeys.

Speaker 1:

You're going to kill the perfect-acting ones, and that's about it because he ain't gonna come up the way you hope he does every time yeah, just just to clarify that, because you kind of went around the bush there it seemed um, I had a hard time following.

Speaker 2:

So, pretty much. When you sit down, if there's a tree closer to you than the length of your gun, yes, in your left to right to keep you from swinging to keep you from swinging.

Speaker 1:

You're in a tight spot because you ain't getting around because you ain't getting around that you know you can so if you get lucky.

Speaker 2:

But man, it's that's a handicap all day.

Speaker 1:

If you're going to, your option is to pull your gun all the way back and then push it back on the other side and that's a lot of movement to get away with unless he's behind something right, and it's got to be quick, it's got to be smooth, it's got to be slow at the same time yeah, you can't bump that tree and shake the whole thing 10 feet up yeah, yeah I mean I have there's been some wind strictly because of that situation right there I have sat.

Speaker 1:

If there was no way around it. I've sat straddling that tree with my gun pointed at the sky.

Speaker 1:

Yep, I mean sitting vertical in my lap, yep, and until I know which, because it I got a shot 359 degrees. It's just the one degree in the middle. I can't shoot right. But that 359 turns to about 14 degrees if I as soon as my gun gets on the other side, because then I can't shoot anything around here or behind me and my legs on the other side of it, so I can't really swing around. So unless he comes at my 1205 o'clock maybe to my one o'clock, I'm I'm done. But another gun is pointing straight up or however. You know it's got to be right in your lap pretty much.

Speaker 2:

I mean you're playing with a little fire there but you gotta.

Speaker 1:

when he makes a big loop and you I'm pretty sure it's gonna be to the left of the street I'm cool with it, you're back to 180.

Speaker 2:

At least as soon as he gets behind that one good tree, you can kind of pick it on.

Speaker 1:

Turkey's gobble Course is drumming.

Speaker 2:

There's ways to do it before you even see him, yeah, if you see. Hey, he's going hard right, just make sure to get on the right side of that sap. If you get in a spot and you can't help it.

Speaker 1:

I mean, and don't lay down on your belly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I try not to do that.

Speaker 1:

I got feet, knees, something under me at all times. Some folks do that and it works, but You're not agile there.

Speaker 2:

You can't move, you can't swing.

Speaker 1:

You can still be as low to the ground with everything up underneath you and save you from having to get everything up underneath you to to make a move, because a lot of I have. Just I've been crouched down.

Speaker 1:

I'm almost in a ball you know, I ain't laying but had to raise back up or twist my whole body over and flip over on my butt and shoot right come. I mean, I'm talking about at my six o'clock turkey 15 yards. I'll have a video of that pretty soon probably and it was one of them. I was in a bomb and and I looked over my shoulder, I was listening to the drumming the whole time and he came up. I only two of them, and I'm talking 15 max. I'm not closer to him probably at 10, maybe, yeah, and how in the world. They didn't see me, I don't know. But when I moved they saw me, but it was a matter of what in the world?

Speaker 2:

you know um, I had to turn the whole.

Speaker 1:

I grabbed the gun with my hands crisscrossed, put this leg over the other one and shifted everything and just spun like a complete 180 on my butt right there and the turkey just looked at me like good, all right, you got me. Yeah, um, ain't nothing you do now, because this is just I mean, when you're 10 yards it's kind of the ground just came out of the ground and there wasn't no way you could run. It wasn't farther than 30. You know, I had it on my shoulder when I came up and that's one thing I don't try to do yeah, no, I wasn't trying.

Speaker 1:

No, I know you weren't trying to do don't think you know, just sit facing whatever direction, coming fast, coming up the other way.

Speaker 2:

That's how you miss a lot, of wound, a lot you know yes it's, it's a shot.

Speaker 1:

I hate to take um and and I know you're in the same boat when I say swing, I'm not meaning swing and shoot, I mean and rotate with the turkey yeah, you know, you'll get one scoot, two and a half scoots, and you're stuck a lot of times the turkey's close enough, then you're in a real bind, right you know? Um, that's what I mean. I don't mean like where you can just feel yeah shoot. Um, if he's, if he is scurrying me, oh and I got a swing and shoot and that's my only opportunity and I don't. I don't pull the trigger unless I'm confident hitting him and a lot of times I can swing and shoot and if I pull?

Speaker 1:

the trigger, I'm probably gonna kill him oh yeah, um, and I'm not saying that in like a boastful way, but I would not have pulled the trigger if I didn't think it would kill him. If I'm not comfortable, yeah, but what I do do is put that barrel way in ahead of me and I find something turkey head high and I go. If he comes out right here, I got it. No-transcript right there but if he's seen you, seen you like that scenario I just described? He ain't stopping at a cut he saw the human?

Speaker 1:

yeah, he ain't, um, but if he's just kind of getting on out of there, smell, right, it smells rat or whatever. I shot one in georgia a couple years ago and it was. He saw me and went back down and no sooner than I went that gummit. I looked up and I saw that the only direction he's he's walking towards goes back up. Enough, you know, 35 yards down that way, and so I just, you know he could have got down the, the bottom skirted me completely Right. But if he is, and he saw me and he's putting, he's put, put, put, put, put, and he gets right there and sticks his head up, make sure I'm still there. I'm like, well, that's your fault.

Speaker 2:

You know, shot him right there.

Speaker 1:

But I was just ready for that second chance. You know, had I had a big old oak tree to my right, that would not have even been an option. I'd have had to fumble around all over the place. But yeah, so we're coming up on time. Yeah, Unless you can think of any more, y'all shoot us some topics and concerns and stuff like that, whether it be in the reviews, or We've talked about field edges right, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Okay, one of the past episodes and y'all check out some of our old episodes Really and honestly, yeah I went back on the way up to nashville, I went back and played two or three of them just just because I had, you know, some time on my hands. And it's funny like listening back to them and you know, even though it's me or you, or me and seals, or you and seals, or whoever?

Speaker 2:

you know, and it was like it's kind of funny, you know, hearing some things that we don't normally talk about anymore or kind of forgot about, and you know, I almost caught myself like oh yeah, that is right, you're kind of picking up a tip of my own that I forgot a quote-unquote. You know, tip, whatever you'd say, you know, I feel like I pulled one or two things off there. I'm like that is. I needed to hear that this year because I forgot all about that last year.

Speaker 2:

I gotta refresh myself yeah, it's a refresher kind of thing but I mean we've had.

Speaker 1:

I was thinking the day I was talking with lan who was on our we don't have a ton of guests anymore, right, but we have that when we've had cuz on here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, dr chamberlain, uh, david all of them um yeah a whole lot of people, yeah, you know he Ott Keith. Ott might have been my favorite conversation I forgot we had Keith.

Speaker 1:

Ott. I talked to him three more hours after that thing, and it was about a two hour podcast me and him talked for so long he was a trip. I enjoyed the heck out of that one let me get him back home. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, y'all, y'all go through the archives a little bit, you'll get surprised. Sometimes I'm like, dang, we are pretty good. Sometimes I'm like how did this get this many downloads?

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

But anyway. So the plan is to hopefully have a few more calling guests every now and then sparingly, and then when we do, it'll kind of be a double episode week usually, um, because we're going to be up into and I have a little I ain't gonna say it's like a treat or something, it's not something special, but um, but we're gonna have a special one or two episodes right before the current season starts um, guests that y'all might not be expecting but y'all are going to want to listen to, and um should be a a good episode, a long time coming kind of deal, um. But other than that, we appreciate y'all listening. We appreciate all the reviews and shares and stuff and all the photo tags and everything we're starting to get you know right now as people are getting amped up.

Speaker 2:

We're getting amped up too so and and that is another thing that I try to mention before season every year tag us in the post with our gear we like seeing that, because yeah we like and you know, sometimes we'll share them, you know, depending on the situation, but we don't have a lot of pictures, yeah. So yeah, I know y'all get tired of seeing me and hunter right, yeah, if y'all got some good pictures of our stuff please send all means in them.

Speaker 1:

We'll make it right, right, um, yeah, that's uh, but yeah, tag us in them.

Speaker 2:

You know that is a big thing. We I like I just enjoy just looking at our tag photos every once in a while and recognizing oh yeah, I remember, you know talking to him at a trade show for a little while I handed him that barricade. Yeah, you know that's fun to me.

Speaker 1:

Um I don't know and seeing that they're, they're doing, they're doing a job, you know which when we first started it was kind of everybody tagging you and everything because they're trying to help you out and stuff, and then, like the bigger brands, they don't get tagged and everything. It's just kind of given. But I don't want to ever be that. I kind of like the whole little brand deal, I'm gonna be your buddy, right, exactly yeah, um, we still, we still remember everybody you know that we meet half time and want to see and check in on you and stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

So, but anyway, we appreciate the. We appreciate the heck out of it. I promise you We'll see you next week. Thanks again for listening to the Spring Leisure Podcast For a pursuit in which 99% doesn't always cut it. We've rested our liability in Apex's ammunition since they began making turkey loads in 2017. Their iconic TSS turkey shells are able to pack more shot into traditional payloads, resulting in more pellet scent, more consistent patterns and an increased pattern density. So, in other words, apex makes sure that the conclusion to those long-fought battles of spring are instant, absolute and ethical.

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