The Spring Legion Podcast
Welcome to a year-round discussion on the wild turkey and those who hunt them. Hosted by Hunter Farrior, founder of Spring Legion and author of Ballad of a Turkey Hunter, the weekly podcast is geared for all outdoor communities and dives deeper than the usual tactics and calling tips. Holding true to the brand, topics are built upon respecting the heritage and challenges of hunting, with a never-ending appreciation for all that the spring season provides. Enjoy insight from special guests like Dave Owens of Pinhoti Project, Cuz Strickland of Mossy Oak, our friends at NWTF and Muscadine Bloodline, and so many more widely known for their impact in the turkey hunting community, as well as the deer, duck, and waterfowl realm, who exhibit the obsession of which only a real turkey hunter may truly understand. Thanks for listening.
The Spring Legion Podcast
Early Season Turkey Hunting - A Different Approach in Scouting, Calling, and Setup
As we stand at the threshold of the season, our boots firmly planted in Mississippi's fertile ground, we gaze toward the horizon with anticipation. Talk turns to the promise of rain and early season behavior, yet the spirit of the hunt remains unshaken. We invite you to step into our world, one where every rustling leaf could signal the approach of a wary bird and every call beckons a response. Here's to the stories yet written in the dappled light of the turkey woods, to the laughter and the lessons that will unfold. Join us, gear up, and let's make this turkey season one for the books.
As the Mississippi sun dips below the treeline, casting long shadows over the awakening woods, turkey hunting season beckons. We can almost hear the gobble of a longbeard challenging the dawn, a sound that spells out adventure and the pursuit of a craft honed over generations. This episode isn't just a trove of tips and tales; it's a hat-tip to the great outdoors and an early morning call to action for every hunter with a diaphragm call and a penchant for strategy. We're not just talking turkey; we're living the tradition, a legacy passed down from the likes of Mr. George Mayfield, whose wisdom resonates through our discussions like a perfect yelp on a crisp morning.
With the thrill of the chase comes the nuance of technique, and that's where we bare our souls and share our expertise. Whether we're dissecting the art of coaxing a wary gobbler or revealing the challenges of capturing these moments on camera, each story is a piece of the puzzle that is turkey hunting. The woods are our classroom, the turkeys our unpredictable instructors, and every hunt a lesson in patience and unpredictability. From the camaraderie of shared hunts to the pride of outsmarting a crafty tom, we unwrap the experiences that shape us as hunters and storytellers, eager to pass on that knowledge to you.
Check out the SPRING LEGION YouTube Channel to watch the hunts referenced on our show, as they happened and as real as it gets.
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What's going on y'all? Welcome back to another episode of Spring Legend podcast. Today, it is yours truly hunter farrier joining you with the usual chase farrier, and we might as well make this a midweek podcast. At this point, it's three weeks in a row. Our Monday is turned to a Tuesday and perhaps a Wednesday, but it's officially turkey season Eve, eve, eve Eve. Yeah, down here in Mississippi, which is where we are located and we are as good as I'll get out and a little, the nerves are kind of sitting on the end, I believe, looking up the day and looking at the weather, and I feel like it wasn't long ago. I was trying my best to pull up a 60 day forecast, trying to figure out what the weather is going to be, and now it's in the screen, you know, like the next two or three days or whatever.
Speaker 2:Let you know it's really not only will it not be long, now it is around the corner and I'm kind of here, you know it feels like turkey season, smells like turkey season, sounds like turkey season outside when you walk out and all the preparations that go into it.
Speaker 1:We are laid on a lot of them, as always, for usual. Notice the pollen on the windshield is not time for that lovely stuff that caught me by surprise.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to lie, I kind of forgot about it. But this morning.
Speaker 1:I flipped on the. I thought I just had a bunch of dust on there and I threw the windshield wipers and it was just a yellow line. I'm like oh it's here.
Speaker 2:I did the same yesterday and I actually just rent my truck off before getting old changes and stuff like that, trying to get ahead of the game. And yeah, I came back out the next morning and there was dust on there and you know, first cutting grass first time, and stuff like that. And I thought that's what it was and, like you said, a little yellow line it makes whenever you hit the windshield wiper fluid. I went, uh, oh, better go on, and I need to work as out of sponsorship with Zertek. That'd be cool if, um, we don't really have sponsors on this uh podcast, but Zertek's listening, all right.
Speaker 2:Us, because we put it to good use with whatever stipulations you got in mind, we will abide by because, uh, I go through them, um, but yeah, I, I, I don't, I didn't, couldn't think of a better guest to follow up Mr Mayfield. And, um, I wasn't gonna put that weight on anybody but us, because that's gonna be really hard. Uh. Well, dixon texted me. He said, uh, yeah, whoever follows that one's gonna have some big shoes to fill. And I told him, is that if, uh, ben Lee was here himself? I don't, I don't know if he could come in and do a better podcast than that and he was, you know, straight up entertainer and, um, yeah, that was. That was pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:We got listen to that one, the two prior to this one with Mr George Mayfield and everybody Blake Dile. Y'all need to do that because there's a lot jam packed into that and it's got a lot of good feedback from other folks and folks who know him and folks who knew of him and and folks who have never heard of him. You know, you'd be surprised how many people live in the deep south and it was like wait, who is this guy? You know he's just generational barrier there. Um, he's, he's not on a bunch of media and you know stuff that we are used to consuming our, you know, news and info and you know knowledge from you know pretty low key on that.
Speaker 2:So if you hadn't heard about word of mouth or anything like that or run into him might not have a reason to know him. So we got to know him pretty good in that one and um wanted to remind y'all real quick about the wisdom series stuff. We got him in, got him sent out all the pre-orders out. Everybody's starting to get him now. Um really pumped about him obviously. Oh yeah, it's not that I had a little faith in them looking, their feeling or performing as good as the sample did, because I knew you know what we were getting, but to the hold in your hand feels a lot better. You know when it's been you know months since you gave the official okay. We got him in and and had a good old time. The other day, uh, chase and Seals and uh, our buddy Mason and I, we uh went out and had to get us some cool product pictures and uh, chase and Seals are some heck of a models.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you that they uh they, they got got up in there, we got all decked out and I was like I don't know, we've never done this kind of stuff and, uh, one of those by the bullet, somebody's got to do it and we didn't have time to, you know, outsource it or really. And I really want to get some pictures up before the season, because, if that's when you buy them and that's you know, folks want to see what they're going to look like against a tree more than against them. You know, some wood colored paneling, which is all we got up in here plenty of that, oh yeah we got a lot of wood colored paneling.
Speaker 2:This whole place is just covered in it. I'm a big fan of that. If you haven't figured out, even when we started in podcast, I took guest bedroom it's not Chase's house and covered it in wood. We can't afford the wood to actually put up like the barn was. I'm like I can get that $20 panel and it looks kind of like wood. So, uh, we've got a lot of different variations up in here once it holds insulation.
Speaker 2:I'm cool with it, yeah, which is coming in pretty handy at 85 degrees today. Yeah, um. But now we went out there and then, um, mason had his camera, which is better than ours and and did some videos and stuff, and we all had our shotguns and everything and decided to do some patterning, which two weeks ago I was told my I'm never patterned my shotgun and I was saying that kind of bite my lip going, I'm gonna have to do that this year because I'm officially out of my stock.
Speaker 2:Stockpile right I mean I had a pile when, when apex first started Making a, making the shells or whatever, back in 17 or I don't know when they really started, but whenever they did, I bought like Boxes and boxes of them because that would mean it was. So I remember sitting in the middle of two chicken houses on the phone Trying to hunt service when, whenever they released and this was like my dad sent me an email or something that had a link to him maybe and I bought literally is like a paycheck for the shells. So I've been good on shells for a while, right, and I got it. You know me, I don't like to change nothing. I've shot an 870 Same exact setup, whatever got a choke from probably Walmart on it and I haven't even taken it out to look and see what it is. Now I've shot these, just this old black box of apex and it's.
Speaker 2:Got nothing eyes. It's got like some handwritten something on the inside and I just want to get through with these five. I'll grab another one and I got them a certain spot and this year I was in Minnesota and I ran out and I was like we've reached the end of the line and, thank goodness, my dad had like Just, I don't know whether he just left them in there like I grabbed them he has some shells from Whenever we met up with y'all, so I had two in there and I killed two more turkeys and that was the last two shells I had. So, but, um, so I needed to shoot before this year. Just go grab some more. You know same. You know same parameters.
Speaker 2:I don't even know the details of Three inch knives is what I call them right, but it made me feel better shooting them one time before going out there, because I tried the other ones so many times. But I would imagine you know we weren't a company in 2017 and how much we've changed this 19. I'm sure something's changed up in them and their production processes since 17 and still shoot good, but they feel better knowing that before shooting it out of Turkey, as I usually would. But yeah, they and I got the green leaf box, so I Don't know that had much to do with it, but I did like I think was nice and tens I shot and then still shot his 20 gauge. He shot 9s out of it. And then you got an 870 as well and you shot 7s and 9s, I believe.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. But, and I really liked them. Yeah, no, they do good which I've shot 7 and 9s out of that before really but I Don't know it was. You know that box looked a little different than my old box. Yeah, but shot Pretty dang good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I did really good actually and um yeah, so we are pretty good on the firearm and shell side and now all that's left is kind of I'm gonna go through my turkey vest here for long and I kind of I got my preseason little any rituals, but I Guess you call them traditions or usuals that I go through and past couple years do the babies and stuff. They've been a little rushed or a little makeshifted or a little. We'll just get around to it later. But usually the, the week, the week before the opener, down the city and stuff, I'll I try to put it off as long as I can because if I do it in, you know, early February or something, then I'm Can't sleep. So I try to not think about turkey on as much as I can.
Speaker 2:I don't like really practice calls or do anything like that, and I Will, around mid-January, start, you know, rolling through some mouth calls maybe, but I start that it starts getting too much On me. I'll just like, all right, that's, that's too much. I'll stop being productive in my daily life, trying to, you know, go to do too much counting stuff, which we've been doing a little bit lately, and trying to, you know, hear one here and there. But I'll do that and I'll, you know, do my permethrin and stuff like that, spread my clothes down this week probably gonna do here shortly.
Speaker 2:And my another thing I do is I kind of condition my boots, put a lot, you know, put that, this conditioners, what it's called, or water proofing conditioner. Maybe I'll do my hiking boots and my, my rubber boots and Other than that, I kind of do a quick rundown double check. I got everything, because most time I don't, and that's it. You know the which this year will have our new pants and stuff. So I got to remind me, go through my old pants, make sure I get the gloves and Mask out of those pockets I try to keep my my right glove and my mask in my right pocket and my left glove and my left pocket.
Speaker 2:And if, If that method fails now I got usually three fingers cut out of my right and two fingers got on my left if I'm trying to fumble around in the dark. But yeah, that and that's about it. I can't think of much else. You know, I'm sure as soon as I get there out the mouth I will like kind of spread my gun down stuff like that which this year I'll be have a different sling and you know little things like that I'll put on it and whatnot. But no, we got to get used to the whole camera thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's been a fun one to learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which I mean I, or convince you of more as a. Yeah, I don't mind running them. Yeah, I feel naked without them. At this point, I feel I think Some days I hate them. I mean there's a few days I hate them, but most of time if I don't have a camera, I mean I carry a camera, deer hunt with me. I those.
Speaker 1:Those videos will definitely never see the light of day you know, just, it's just cuz I don't hey, I can practice for turkey season in the in the deer woods, but I can right, you know learn something different. If I mess it up, I mess it up.
Speaker 2:Which I was fortunate to tackle, like in Jordan's on this year, who are gurus at it and they taught me a lot in the deer season Because I did not know what's going on in the deer woods. I'm sitting there like, oh, there's one, yeah, sit down. But I got to learn a lot about the camera stuff from them and, yeah, we. The problem now is we've got the video. We still have Multiple videos from last year that haven't been edited and put out there, because I think it's taking us longer than the average person to edit them and publish them, because we're still getting the hang of the whole Adobe or whatever it's called.
Speaker 2:Yeah we got. But hopefully we don't have some trips. When you sit in the passenger seat and one of us can be doing that, we'll be pumping it out there to you. So Some videos turned up pretty good. You know, the ones we filmed accidentally easily, I guess, made it pretty smooth sailing, pretty vanilla. But it's just we've got so much going on right now, it's we're gonna get them videos out and that's why we film, that's why we, it's why I didn't shoot like seven turkeys trying to. So we better get them out, because I was pretty pissed.
Speaker 1:Not because they were on camera, because that, oh yeah, no, get in your way, right? I was trying hard to do it.
Speaker 2:Because y'all were doing it, I'm like I don't want to let them down. You know they're, they're probably you know kind of honor.
Speaker 1:I'll get stuck for 10 minutes trying to cut it on right and then realize Turkey don't walk past you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's probably what happened this year, yeah, but but no, we're going today. We're gonna talk a little bit about early season turkey hunt and I was thinking about it the other day and kind of some of the differences between Between the early season and the late season and the mid season, and you know why you're kind of trying to figure out had to move that, but why you're kind of trying to figure out what the turkeys are doing and what you should be doing, and it's a little more than just getting the feel for calling again. I know, last year the first time I picked up my slate was in the woods. First I'm out unbox my box in the back of the truck before we walked in the woods. I didn't have no, no time to. I had no idea I was even going hunting until April and all of a sudden it's March 16th and yeah, because you better hope you got it yeah so Everything was there.
Speaker 2:Enough was there to hunt and you know you pick up. It's like ride a bike, most things. But the turkeys are usually a little different and that's where I wanted to dive into Um. A lot of times, which I mean, folks can be hearing this right for the season, but I don't. I don't know how this year is gonna be. I hadn't had enough, you know, woods time thus far in the past week or so to see what the turkeys are doing or how far along they are in the process, but they're not gobbled out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did hear that this week, but you did a bit.
Speaker 2:A lot of people are saying that, oh yeah, um, but they're not gonna be gobbled out and they are, potentially could still be in groups, and that's you know. If you're hunting them and you're wanting to kill one, that's usually a good. There's about a five or six days ban there where there's Gobblers still together. They are actively, you know, pursuing and breeding hens and the hens still together and they're just getting closer and closer and closer and they gobble a lot because it's like I feel it's still a lot more competition going on. It's not necessarily work yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's still. They're just as amped as we are. I promise, and you know, that's kind of that Gold. There's golden few days where you could potentially position yourself in between them, and this, don't screw it up from there. Yeah, you know, I have the golden words there, but that's easy to do. Nevertheless, to screw it up, and we do it all the time and it's just, it's good to be in between. And then there's times where You'll be in between them, and this happens a lot. They still meet up. They don't ever walk right, adam, I mean they do, but I'm saying you might be in a beeline between both of them, but it all it takes is one of them to take a hard, hard step right two or three times, and where they do meet is not gonna be within, you know, 25 yards of you're really banking on a small radius there, right, but but that's I mean, that's, if I'm hunting early season, that's what I'm looking for.
Speaker 2:Where are they? That's the first question I try to answer is not, where were they in November? Definitely, because they probably ain't there. And not where were they last week, because now is when they're gonna be moving and doing stuff, and it might be roost and you know closer. You know closer to X, y or Z, it don't matter, but they're gonna be. Things are a changing, we'll put it that way, you know, and it's a lot more than just shining your feathers and you know Brighter wattles. This you know they're. Their mentality is changing, just like ours is, and they might not be where you heard them when you heard.
Speaker 2:You found that out last year opening day that, you know, you pulled up and kind of were bummed that that turkey wasn't there. No more so. But luckily someone else had heard him early and thought he was still there and beat you to his spot, went in there and right and I went to a different spot where they had Possibly moved to and maybe some other turkeys a move. I don't know if they're, but they weren't there when you were listening the other time, right? You know which?
Speaker 1:yeah, the last time I'd heard a bird in there was a weaker or more, maybe two weeks before that, and I just I couldn't find him again. I was just struggling to locate him and turned out he moved across the road Mm-hmm, and I, you know, had listened that same week and just wrote that whole side of the road off, just because I'd not heard a bird over there, and pretty much covered front to back of it. Yeah, so you know? I thought you know. Turkey's ankle apparently don't hang out over here.
Speaker 1:They hang out on that other side. I need to at least put myself in those woods. Yeah, and thank goodness, and yeah, it was sitting there that morning, glad they were tied into two of them, mm-hmm, and I mean I don't know as it, and it was a very hectic hunt. All their Picture perfect, all at the same time.
Speaker 1:I guess I don't know, what you want to say about it. It's the very good indication, indication, inclination, whichever one of those words that I'm hitting on of what you know we say about turkey hunting. You know it's a full-blown turkey hunting. One video kind of exemplification, exemplification. Here we go. I think I'm lucky to get through to some cool mechanics school. You know they don't judge me anyways so but yeah, I mean, it went About as perfect as you could have a time, yeah, I guess what's that message?
Speaker 2:a good example of why you, you still go, you know. I mean just go and and Take the day by the day and not what it was. Because I mean, if you hunt them on the third day, your Expectations are totally different than they are the first day. But you have a month to think about. The first day is why it's usually hey wire on the first day, because the plans change so much and the turkeys do whatever you think they wouldn't do. And If you go in there knowing that it's not gonna happen, however you think it's gonna happen, you know you're gonna. Your actions are probably a little better. You're not gonna get us Flustered or position yourself wrong. That's what I mean by don't mess it up, you know, don't, don't set up for something that hadn't happened yet and don't call for something that hadn't, you know, called for a call, I guess you'd say, but I've done and.
Speaker 2:I'm saying this not as like a coaching point. I'm saying like, listen, things I've done in the past in the early you know early season, that I have noticed since.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I also get too excited in the early season.
Speaker 2:That's yeah.
Speaker 1:And I have to really try to watch that a little bit more. But when I do get a turkey work and I'll go to, you know I lose every thought. I've ever had in my life, just mm-hmm and just do the stupidest stuff and then till and I'm not still do some stupid things through the year that I've been a bit bite me in the butt. But um, you know that first week or two it's kind of like our finds groove and get on in it, you know yeah, and that groove needs to hurry up and there's certain things I'll hear I might.
Speaker 2:I forgot they did that.
Speaker 2:I forgot not to do this or you know, and I've been doing it for a long time, yeah, but yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is just this patience. A you know, understand that when you're hunting them in the early season, you know you're the. The floor is wide open, yeah, you so speak, not, I mean, figured to the end, literally. I mean that's another point to hit on is how open the woods are. You know you can't really make the moves you might have made late April last year and and and try to run a gun at stuff. You might be forced to patience, even if you don't want to be patient. If they're on the ground and it's a wide open bottom between you, all right, it's usually a long way in some of these places.
Speaker 2:But if you're hunting in the pine, stuff like that and it's a little thicker and you can kind of get by with a lot more. But I'm saying, you know, be patient with the birds, that they're those hens and those goblers both wake up with the same intention that day and it's still. You know they're not going to take their off of them, it's they're gonna get hand up and they're gonna Gobble their.
Speaker 2:You know head off on the limb and when they hit the ground it's Then they're probably landing next to why they were goblin you know, If not, they're gonna be with them very shortly.
Speaker 2:You won't kill a lot of them in the early season off the limb or Maybe the next day off the limb kind of deal. You know, we'll see them this time of year, 330 pm, and they're still, you know, 90, nothing with these hands and just not even breaking loose. Haven't probably hadn't taken the time to pick the ground yet. Yeah, they're just trying. I mean, the list is very long. Is what I'm trying to get out of the hands You're gonna have to, kind of, they gets with them. Yeah, be ready to wait, and don't? You know, don't give up on it, but Don't mess it up either. Don't try to force something that's not gonna happen, right, because when those targets get hinned up, is you know, my mind instantly goes to calling the hand over. That's all you can do. Is you know I say all you can do? There's Times when I have and I'm sure a lot of other people might even have better luck at it calling a goblin off of them.
Speaker 2:But like going back to our early season last year was very, very, very meticulously timing a call, one or two calls, five or six max win To yell and it took an hour of patience to wait and wait and wait until Subordinate. You know I wouldn't say a satellite gobbler, but in three weeks would be a satellite gobbler. Probably they were still in a group Jake's hands and gobblers, but you know, gobbling their heads off Jake's talking everywhere he ends yelp and yada, yada, just until one guy in the very back to call Just waited and waited and waited and waited. We're fortunate enough our hours fortunate to see him. Y'all couldn't see him. I can see him.
Speaker 2:if you, most times you can't see him and that's something I do a lot of times is if I ever do have the opportunity to watch a flock of turkeys work, naturally, or even respond to calls and stuff like that, I kind of I like to go back and imagine it. If I couldn't see him, how would that have sounded? And a lot of times is nothing, you would you think you bumped them. You know, yeah, whatever I just watched, I you know I'm not you know, quote unquote entertained watching them. But if I couldn't watch them, I think they weren't there. I think you know I'd messed it up, I'd leave. Thank goodness I could see them and would wait and you know, call randomly and you know something might happen. But we had just being patient with the, with turkeys. I mean, let the turkeys be turkeys. And you know you start getting in there and just really trying to Do, do stuff that hey, you hadn't practiced in a while.
Speaker 2:You know, you're coming in there pretty rusty and be Hmm, they got a lot of you, got a lot of competition right there, I feel like, and hunters too. If you hunt public land everybody's going to be out at opening week or two Till they get you know, the bus with them go home or, you know, can't hear them Once the foliage gets there. A lot of folks, you know you hear a long way A lot of folks who don't like to walk up in there. A lot can still, you know hearing from gravel roads and stuff, and you know I like hunting in the early season a lot more. A lot of folks hate it because of the open woods, but I would rather yeah.
Speaker 2:It just feels turkey to me.
Speaker 1:Which last year we had a very different situation than we normally do, which I know. You were in Georgia so you didn't really man, I'd seen it as much. But we had a very dense foliage last year and that bird up, 100, open in the morning or killed at the morning, like I was slipping up in there in the last you know four or five times I'd heard of turkey. You know I kind of was pretty able, easy to pick out where he was at because there wasn't any foliage.
Speaker 1:And that's probably why I wasn't hearing any of these birds, because I wasn't getting in the back. You know, back in there far enough. But I ended up walking under some hands and like, oddly enough, if I bump a hand off the limb and can get sit down right there or replace it within 10 or 15 feet of that.
Speaker 1:It normally works out well, which that situation is a good one to unfold, cause, like when I did sit down, there was more hands to my right, kind of behind me. I'd walked a little bit past them, actually, and they pitched down 10 feet from me Like I'm, like I'm sitting where they don't see it and that guy was going to walk right up here to them and of course that was their morning. The hand went to the guy and they stayed out there 60 yards.
Speaker 2:Just fine, if I met a bush that I could do yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know, I thought I had it whipped and would be out of there 10 minutes after daylight, you know, or shooting light or whatever and fly down. I should say. But anyways you know, I ended up, turkey just wouldn't budge, had to hand sit there with him and I mean I tried a little silence, tried a little bit of hardcore calling blew the woods out of there and all the kitchen sinks.
Speaker 1:But what ended up happening was a Turkey putted behind me and those hands turned and ran a B line and we're about to run me over and they saw me and spooked.
Speaker 1:And I just thought it's over with, and so I just stayed there, you know sitting there looking at the map and whatnot, trying to figure out why there was another bird way down in there that I heard twice and turns out that must have been the bird that made one or two. Yeah, I don't know what they were, I don't remember correctly, but putts or clocks or whatever it was, and those hands knew his two little hay, I mean you know in your in your house over here, you know, come on to this room or whatever.
Speaker 1:And those hands left that other gobbler like it was nothing. Yeah, just boom gone. It's a mean. Now I'm sure he would have been following if they wouldn't have seen me. I was just not set up in the right spot. And I probably would have shot that turkey and still to this day would never would have known that Turkey was behind me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just assumed it was a hen or something, but I just assumed at the time it was the hen I had bumped off the limb. But I've killed several opening weekend or two weekends that I've been pushing in there trying to close distance on him on a goblin turkey and ended up bumping hands off. And those are the normal in the mornings I kill them.
Speaker 2:Because it like kind of go back there, they're changes stuff, so you know they get in a little routine. When you come in and you don't know the routine is, you can think you know the routine to do and stuff like that, but it you know they still ain't got their routine figured out, right.
Speaker 2:So they don't. They're trying to the trust doors open right now. That makes sense. So I mean there's a chance there those gobblers are going kind of you know, believe what they hear, so to speak. If you're half decent at calling or you know no way in and where and what to call, you know their, their trust doors kind of wide open. Yeah, I mean, calling the hens is a new ballgame and I find myself probably doing it more than you know, calling the gobblers, especially in the open season, and a little bit how I hunt and stuff, and I can't remember necessarily the last time I just sure enough kill one off the roof, you know, flew down, walked to me you know a lot of them lately have been finding them late.
Speaker 2:You know, as a unfamiliar place. Not even you know or hearing them from a way distance. Don't even fool with the roof. You know by the time I get there he's on the ground. Got to reestablish a plan there, but you know just where you set up, where you know you're sitting high on them and then expecting to move a little bit and there's still acres and bottoms and stuff could potentially go there and your sound is going to carry they can. They can show off a lot more. So just trying to find the open wooded areas more than anything.
Speaker 2:And you know just my kind of natural style on this curiosity and trying to pull one around the bend over a little knoll and make him do something to look, and making sure that's as close as I can possibly get in position and that to my left the right handed. And the same works for the hens. You know, I think sometimes the hens can be a little more curious than the gobbler if they're together. The gobbler is not wondering anything, you know, he's just, he's just there at that point he's in utopia.
Speaker 2:So just be with the hens, especially they've already been bred, or I don't know how the technical word goes If they weigh down the line. You know they can get a little curious. If just making natural turkey sounds and stuff and I always like to mimic them a lot they get to whatever they're saying. I'll try to say back, even if they're calling a different hen, and sometimes when those hens are in bigger groups, their confidence kind of goes up too and they'll try to come over there and then and there's sometimes that I'll really, you know, really get on out there and try to wait until a hen is, her head is behind a tree. If I'm going back and forth with her, her head is behind a tree. They look, you know turkey gobbles and I feel like the whole world's shaking.
Speaker 2:He doesn't know what's happening when he's gobbling, so to speak, but hen, she's cutting and yelping. You know, long, like I've noticed, it's not long ago place we me and Seals on at that time. It's gonna be a separate day, though, that a hen came up cutting and yelping, and almost it's one of them red car face. Once you notice it, you start really noticing that if she was walking, she cut, cut and yelp 10 to 14 times. I mean it was long.
Speaker 2:And then, as she walked in if she wasn't walking, she'd just walk, she'd just cut more and yelp two or three times.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And cut. You know it was just different. So I kind of remember that. You know, if I'm standing up and trying to move towards them and I'll elongate the number of yelps I have in a little sequencer if I'm sitting there I try not to, and just little things like that and I'll wait until her head she can see.
Speaker 2:You know, they're kind of cutting and looking and looking hard, and I'll wait until, if I can, if I do have eyes on her they're going to get close, if you're going to get the govra close. So if I can see her out in the open or anything, I'll wait until there's a tree or something between us and then I'll call and she's in the wide open looking. I won't say nothing, make her look curious, and then she'll kind of be like all right, I ran her off and then go back in the soon. She gets to where her eyes and mind don't connect them while I do it again and she'll come back and the hen's always to me it seemed to come back more than a govra wheel. You know, a govra comes, checks it out, doesn't see a hen. Well, if you very lucky, if you come back and take a diamond hen.
Speaker 2:I've seen several come back and forth. Could be different hen obviously, but I don't think it is, and they cover some ground looking and they let you know a govra will gobble here and there, but he didn't let you know the route she's taking, you know and they don't always bring the gobbler with them.
Speaker 1:No, I learned that with that hen that flew in to me and Bradley last year. Um, because, because that we were set up on the edge of a were you finished your story? Yeah, Okay, we were set up kind of in some clean woods but there was a thicket between us and the gobbler and I was. I was sitting there with Bradley and I heard the bird gobble two or three times and this is a Houdini of a bird. We hunted him several times and never ended up getting him within a hundred yards of us no-transcript.
Speaker 1:This one hen. She started yelping and cutting them stuff. So I fired up with her again, just called back, mocked her or whatever you want to say, and I could tell I fired her up and then I went quiet and I hear flying and I'm like you know, I knew this bird was on the ground at 10 o'clock in the morning. I said she just flew.
Speaker 1:You know, I looked at Bradley and I said I bet she's flying over here, and she flew over all that thicket and landed 15 feet from me and went to Kiki and and kaka, kaka, kaka and just wore it out and just was causing commotion. And I let her just do it for a minute because I, you know, I was kind of caught off guard. I'm like goodness, if this copper flies in behind her, it's going to be. We need to try and easy to get her up be ready, which she stayed there.
Speaker 1:She climbed a tree that had, you know, 45 degree fell over it and got hung up on another tree. She walked up that whole trunks and just Kiki I mean she Kiki more than most things.
Speaker 2:I will hear a lot more Kiki's in the early season. Well, I mean, I guess technically real, real late in the season. If they have poles and stuff, they will, but I will. I mean, they're kind of.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's a lot of first rodeos going around between Jackson Jr and they're still like that, you know groups that normally if they're getting the group, I don't know what sort of the type of call a Kiki is.
Speaker 2:It's more of an, I guess, assembly issue. Assembly call is what they say. It's not the assembly call, but you know it's one of purpose.
Speaker 1:So like I mean, if they're in groups or have been in groups, they're probably gonna be, or if they're looking for you. I've heard a lot of Kiki's.
Speaker 2:Right, that's what they're meaning. Like they're trying to come everywhere come where I can see you kind of thing and like going back to, things are changing, you know, especially if it's like a, you know, a less than one year old, let's say, called Jenny.
Speaker 1:Jenny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jenny, she probably don't know that. Hey, this stuff's about to, everybody's about to split up Some stuff, some wild things about to happen. You know this first radio kind of deal. So she's probably like where in the heck is everybody go?
Speaker 2:you know, Mama always getting left on the sale. You know she's looking. So I do a lot of that and you know, and I've had some good luck with it, and you know there's also when the jakes are grouped up. So you're going to get fooled a couple of times in early season. I mean I will in the late season, but for some reason they kind of they lose their, their cockiness a little bit as the season goes.
Speaker 1:I found I had one come in on me last year that I swear to you was six years old.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you, the hardest comes with the hard men's.
Speaker 1:H four yeah, he was the hardest cause. My bird acted like a grown turkey. I mean he can't I'm. I position myself on a about an eight inch incline on this big flat and he walked that eight inch incline the whole way to me and I just saw it thinking like hey, it's not that damn right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you know more as of, and then I'm like it's kind of a little little knoll for him to walk you know, and I mean it was, it was higher out there where he was walking around on, and then you know, I mean I was like shoot if this bird would have been a two year old, it would have been home and I wish.
Speaker 1:And I mean he came up in there 15 feet from me and never saw me just stay there, got hammer and right in my ear for 20 minutes for LA four. He's probably just moved on with his life. Yeah, it was fun. I mean I got fired up.
Speaker 2:I get frustrated to Jake's because I get frustrated at knowing Jake's are in there because I started not trusting myself. You know that could be. You know I'm not quite as committed to you know doing something because I don't want to a booger them Be is a lot harder to blur them. They're very, very, very, very incompetent to hunting pressure. You know I mean obviously for obvious reasons I've never seen it, but be they just I don't think their fear is there yet.
Speaker 2:They you know they just they don't have that. You know skepticality to them quite yet. I mean, I've seen them see people and still like just turned their heads. I was what is that?
Speaker 1:you know, curiosity not getting not threat, but more curiosity, you know.
Speaker 2:So, um, and then they're gonna. You're calling and there's one in the area, or a couple in the area. They're gonna come walk up and pick your gun, bury on, figure out what you are, you know, then go off, a bitch move and they'll act like the world's in. Then you know, then the goblins are hangs up out there.
Speaker 1:You're like God, I hate Jake, yeah, and I and and I mean I've had some instances with you know one, maybe two jakes coming there and then a long beard will hear them and be like hang on. They don't found him a hand not in my house, you know and he'll pull off some, some hands and come over there just to set, set the tone straight, real quick, but if you, if you have four or five Jake's coming in there, a guy will probably ain't gonna go over there.
Speaker 1:We that's kind of you're sitting there calling Jake's in every day. Hey, you may want to go on some more different.
Speaker 2:You know I mean, yeah, it's going to be tough or be a little quieter. Yeah, I mean, that's what I was about to say. Is is, depending on the circumstance, if you got a Jake in there, maybe two jakes in there, I'll do what I can to get him to gobble, because I mean that guy there knows he's in there and he might not know what he and you are, but he knows he wants you more than he wants you, that Jake to have you know.
Speaker 2:But another thing is just like you said is if I look up and there's 11 to 14, jake's there. I'm probably not trying to call gobble over here because, he's.
Speaker 2:Hey, he's going to be hard to talk him into it. B, you're just asking to mess some stuff up. Yeah, you know, just let him, let him ease on. I'm getting up as quiet as I can and walking out, but at that point the last place I heard that turkey this one I don't want to call and see if he's closed. And then, because you don't call the jakes back, right, they're not smart enough to not know, to not come back, and you'll be doing this like a revolving door at that point.
Speaker 1:But and I know the scenario, early season stuff I want to talk about is um, if you want to move on now, yeah, okay, um, it's hard, for I'm having a hard time telling when your storage are done.
Speaker 2:Oh, sorry, I can go on forever, I know I know, but anyways, um, another early season thing.
Speaker 1:I see a lot is maybe not the first week, but up to about the third week you'll hear a group of turkeys, especially if you're roosting or you know, hooting on an atom on the limb. A group of turkeys in one area, two to three goblers and then one lawn bird.
Speaker 1:And what I kind of always have assumed that was was, you know, there's a group of young. All right that there's two scenarios. Normally it's an old bird by himself, or like a normal bird that's been getting his butt will, possibly a Jake and like. It depends on what the group of turkeys is. But more times than not I've ended up killing that lawn bird and he'd be in a very large turkey. And that's what happened last year.
Speaker 1:That's what happened at, um, I don't know, three seasons ago, that one called off the hill, through a fence, through a creek and, like every scenario that you were, you can never call one across. I somehow did into an open field, to one's lawn tree in the middle of this open field because it's the only place I could get. But like that's another scenario, I like to position myself between those two if I can. If I got a group of turkeys on one side and a lone bird got one, on the other side, that lone bird normally ain't gonna gobble at all Because he's been getting. But what?
Speaker 2:yeah, by that group of turkeys.
Speaker 1:But he is not Moved on far enough because he probably happened two days ago and he, yeah, he don't want to quite leave the group and go find him a new set of hands. But once they, that group, gets occupied with those hands and they're stuck sitting there for the next eight hours, he's kind of like, hey, I want to make a friend real quick, you know you pretty much you're giving him attention when, no, none of the other ones are right, you know so, and that's a, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times I mean I'm not gonna say a lot of times, but I can think of several when that Joker, you know he might have some shorter, sharper spurs and but a good ten and a half probably, you know, over three you know, and I'm just Big droopy waddles and you know a heavy bird and maybe you know kind of past his prime a little bit.
Speaker 2:And there's Even if they're not Jason, there's some two-year-olds in there Three turkeys against one turkey. I don't care, you know them. Three turkeys only have one wing. They still gonna whoop him up pretty good. You know there's just one of them and a lot of time You'll get in there and that turkey is blowing it out of the water.
Speaker 2:There's an old and here's trick go to the turkey, this goblin, a lot, because all reason he is you know if you're trying to pick between multiple I've caught up with some that I I can get almost guaranteed the scenarios. They're misplaced. There's no reason he should be going this early. There's often that nothing he is. He is looking for something and you can get in there and be that something.
Speaker 2:You got a good shot you know, just, you know, be concealed and act like a turkey, and you know, a lot of them times is when I will, you know, do a fly down or something like that, trying to get him on the ground because he's he's taken whatever bait he gets. If he hears a him way off, that's when I don't really necessarily sit there and just, you know, rule of thumb never caught a one goblin on limb, got a auto or make a man shoot twice. Don't look, you know, don't let him know you're on the ground yet. So he's gonna expect you to walk under him, true, but if he's, if he's really blowing it up and I know there's other turkeys and he's kind of separated, mm-hmm, he's gonna either a try to get with that group or be he can hear, he can't even hear. He's gonna head towards in the next time he gobs on ground is almost, you know, a half mile away you know, he's, he's moving somewhere.
Speaker 2:He ain't where he wants to be. That's where he wouldn't be gotten that much, considering circumstance, you know, whether in pressure, and sometimes they just really like to blow it out the water, but a lot of times there's just one odd ball doing that. I will do a fly down, I will do, you know, something to make him try to. You know, come to me. And a lot of times you Better just set the wing down, because sometimes, as soon as he hears, he's saying thank God, yeah, you know, I'm gonna get off this line right, ten hours yeah.
Speaker 1:Eight years one, one target fly down, and that's all it takes setting wings and rolling.
Speaker 2:Yeah and um and, and I probably do do a little more Flydown stuff in them in the early season maybe because they are kind of like I said that the old trust doors open and you know they're they're not expecting as much out of the flocking. Once I feel like most of the hands start nested there's, they're especially sitting on them and stuff laying eggs and whatnot. But once they start getting in their little routine they've got their little time window. They're like all right, you know when the sun gets to here is when the hands start leaving. They can kill them. You know late mornings and stuff a little easier by themselves a lot. They're kind of getting back into eating and you know finding cooler spots and you know in the late season warmer days, but early season they're 90 to nothing. They got one thing on their mind. I don't know what it is, but it's a matter of being in the right place, right time and not getting seen.
Speaker 2:Mainly you know, Okay, and a bunch of stuff that you know we could dive into. We probably ain't got time to, but you know Dressing differently, you got a dressing layers, you know you got a lot of times just wet and stuff. I wear my rubber boots a lot more in the early season than I do in the later season. You know even if it is damp, but a lot of times it's still gonna be some frost and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm normally in a hoodie and long johns or something New shirt we made.
Speaker 2:I made sure to make it as thin as possible because not because of when you hunt 95 every weather because I have dressing layers and I want a layer that is thin as possible, just enough to you know, to wear whatever I'm wearing on the outside. Touching my skin ain't too cold, mm-hmm, got that double layer or whatever makes a big difference at least me. But in the pants are a little little. They're not like Nanotech technology lightweight stuff. They're kind of durable you know right. I mean, that's what walks through stretch to goodness chase was, chase was having a hey-day.
Speaker 2:Chase ain't ever put a pair like this on Right. I was like world yeah.
Speaker 1:We've I mean we probably covered five or six miles after we yeah you know Cuz actually get on taking the pictures in them or whatever like we had a couple hours keel. So we just started scouting for turkeys and doing whatever and shoot all with my whole outfit around there like chase. You look like you're about to go, like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, we got a video of this pattern shotgun. Chase still ain't taking his skin fly home.
Speaker 1:Hey, he's out the door.
Speaker 2:One home you know, you know, I'm never taking these off, yeah but I have to get me a couple pairs, so I have a yard pair and a hunting pair.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm aware of where they're so comfortable and where I'm at the house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean First we hang a lot, but but not that. And you know I'm trying to think anything else of what we could potentially Do differently in the early season. Oh, good reminder to you know, pay your respect to the bird and stuff, and so a lot of folks get. This is when they're, you know they're adrenaline is at their max and I I'm gonna say bad decisions, but their childish decisions or anything like that. But folks love turkey hunters like talk about turkey hunting, turkey hunters like talk about themselves. That's a trade.
Speaker 2:I ain't a shot at nobody. That's a trade of turkey hunting. It's a. It's a very individual sport, it's very Skill driven and stuff. I mean I'm gonna sit there saying ain't worth being proud about because that's that's Also false. You know, if you're able to kill turkey, regardless how big, how big spurs are, how long beard is as long as this, you know, over six inches. I'm not a fan of shooting jakes, even if it is legal, I'll put that out there it's not as proud as anybody.
Speaker 2:I do not condone shooting jakes regardless, but there's a long beard full fan like Long bears, long bears, long beard to me.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you know and killing one at all. If you do it, you know, in a room We'll say the right way and y'all know what I'm talking about. You know there's several ways you can kill one, just like there's several ways you can do a lot of things, and that doesn't mean they're legal or illegal. I think there's a. You know there's a moral compass and it's got a direction at point stores, right and wrong, but you know you've achieved something you know, that's worth being proud about.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, get remember you represent me and chase and a lot of other people too. You know I'm in the turkey hunt community is a very tight-nitched group of us and On table one or two you want a little. You know, quick fame likes and shares and reshairs or whatever can. They'll get them, but it ain't necessarily worth it in the grand scheme of things. So Even good, head on shoulders, act like I've been there before.
Speaker 2:It's kind of the mindset I have going in there and you know we're fortunate to be able to do it, regardless whether it's, you know, from the good Lord or from a country standpoint where we're free to do this, or, you know, I think a lot of us will agree.
Speaker 2:You know we all know somebody in some shape or fashion who did not grow up with a dad, who took him hunting and, you know, didn't get in the woods until they were 25, 26.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of us are a lot more lucky than you think and just being able to have the opportunity to do it, somebody who told him About it, someone who took him one time, and that'd have to be a dad or a family member, somebody you just Took him under the wing, it could have been for one single morning and it ignited a fire. You know, we're all fortunate to be able to do it and, you know, just making sure that that's a point that gets across to that. Um, you know, I think there's a media has done a good thing for, you know, habitat improvement and relation control and Awareness about a lot of things, including legislation and stuff like that. Yeah, um, I don't know, a lot of folks are, you know, not gonna say putting their foot down or drawing a line or anything, but they're like, you know, hey, like friend to friend here. That kind of makes me look like a piece of crap too, because everybody you know knows us as turkey owners and you know we're not all like that.
Speaker 1:You're right, you know.
Speaker 2:yes that's, and we're, you know. Thanks again. This can be on a lot of stuff, but you know I want to Represent turkey hunters as good as I possibly can and that you know there's spring legion inside. That's right.
Speaker 2:You know, that's what I, I want to do, Just not an obligation, it's just a Responsibility, more than anything. So keep that in mind, fellas, and but comma, don't forget, have fun and don't forget to. You know, don't be scared to talk about turkey hunting, because that's why we do it. That's what I want to hear. Is folks talking about turkey hunting. I want to hear about you killing a turkey. I want to see the turkey you killed. You know, um, I yeah, it's not something you just you gotta be the most humble person in the world and never speak of it kind of deal. A lot of folks kind of get a little twisted, you know. They're like wait a minute, you know we can talk about?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know it's still a good thing, dude Right.
Speaker 2:No, it's not, you know, be happy and I love. Be pumped up. Just don't overdo it when it comes to. You know how you represent the birds. You know remains and stuff.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean, it's not that quarry. Yeah, but another thing I like I love about talking about it is the is the mess ups and misses and you know whoop, whoop days. You know I love those stories just almost probably more than the actual ones they got the bird on and I mean I don't most rather talk about that than the ones that did work some days, you know I mean, hey, make me feel like I'm not the only one getting my tail up for two weeks straight here.
Speaker 2:Nobody else having any other issues Exactly, and that's I mean. That happens more often than not you know the opportunities there and the I mean every turkey I've ever shot has something's different about his new story tales, something wild or something more vanilla about it than the last one. You know, some are kind of boring I mean.
Speaker 2:I was in the right place at the right time and I get one time and he was looking for a yelp and that's all it took. You know we're boring story tale, but that's how it happened and I'm definitely going to take that because I can think of a lot of times where I went through five mouth calls and two slate calls and, you know, put 12 miles on my boots to hear one goblin didn't shoot him, you know, but it's a lot of stuff that happens in turkey. Boys that you don't get to see every, you know, every year or ever again, you know, soak those in and, and, and and. Go in with the mindset to learn. I still do that, I'm telling you, I still do that. So much is. Is the day I kind of the day I comprehended that I will never be great, great at turkey hunting, was the day I kind of started getting a little better at turkey hunting, because I started wanting to learn more about turkey hunting from the turkeys, from other folks, and appreciated that I'm never going to actually get there.
Speaker 2:You know, there's always going to be a turkey smarter than me, and he's probably out there right now. And if the stars line and I shoot him, there's one smarter than him out there and I will never get to the end. I will never perfect it and that's why I love it. That's why I like doing it. And it's just you can't. You'll never be perfect. You know there's, even if there's a bird out there that you can kill, there's a day out there where you can't kill him. On that day at least, and you're going to lose as much as you win, if not more. You're biting 50-50. You're pretty good at going good at turkey hunting.
Speaker 1:I always, I always like to tell myself they have a pre pre decided death day. Yeah, day of death, or whatever time of death or whatever you want to say, cause I mean sometimes it's just like it was just meant for him to gobble tomorrow or it was meant for him to go right now. Yep, like you know, I just I've always thought that and it's just kind of one of the things like you ain't going to change it that time, right, cause I mean you just kind of on this one, yeah, yeah, I mean we don't want.
Speaker 2:I mean kind of stigning into a legitimate strategical approach to hunting early season turkey hunting, hunting early season turkeys is, you know, you hear the phrase like that. Turkey didn't want to die today. That's not like me and necessarily destiny that turkey's temperature is content is all get out. He does not want to cooperate with another one, right and you can. You know where the latex off the call is not going to work. You know he's good, he doesn't need you as bad as you think he might.
Speaker 2:Um, especially in these early end of days, you're going to catch that a lot. You know, I know a lot of people who are good turkey hunters who will not leave a goblin turkey but not tries goblin turkey. Good example I was hunting with Daniel and Neil Hayes in Alabama a couple of years ago and one gobbled out of the blue on the limb very close to us and we sat down three minutes maybe. I mean I don't even know. If we called at him he might have gobbled one more time, but somehow or another none of us are sitting within like really talking distance.
Speaker 2:We all kind of eventually all just looked at each other like I don't think he's he didn't want to die, he just wasn't acting like what he got what he got, but I wouldn't have done it and it wasn't whatever call we did Didn't garnish enough, you know anything from him and he got what it's something else and I'm like it wasn't feeling some weird intuition All three of us happened to get at the same time. I don't think he's. You know, let him fly down and he flew down and walked the other way and we slipped out. You know, it wasn't even worth trying. We went and got one that what kind of quote unquote wanted to die today.
Speaker 1:You know he answered you.
Speaker 2:The next time he answered was a little closer and we had to, you know, dual it out with him a little bit, you know calling to him and working him a little bit, but he, he was much more intrigued and it's just, it's an odd to exccribe, you know.
Speaker 2:you know it whenever they're they're feeling their interest to their, they're talking to you. They're you know they're gobbling at you, not just gobbling Right, cause they liked to gobble in there the season and it's a little gray area there. You got to pick which size of fence you're going to be on and that just caught you.
Speaker 1:You learned that from haunting them more and I still don't know it all the time. I'm not sure of it many days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean and Hunter Bird A lot of times, it's the only one that's a problem and you won't know any. Yeah, if you're showing the option, it's a bad feeling, though, like he don't want to die today, and I ain't got another one that does, but a lot of times that happens. That's the only thing you got, and sometimes it works out, you know you can. You can try to make them on another day.
Speaker 1:But that doesn't mean you are, it's like, it's like the old old time, or say, you know, got, got one that's been in the season with, or whatever, and you know once you get to kind of learning them like that.
Speaker 1:Or you've heard the same bird five or six days or more in a row, you know, and all of a sudden you pull up and there's that he's doing something different, that it's kind of like hold up, he won't Today might be the day and you know I've had those days like that and you just kind of soak in the whole day a little bit because you think that, hey, this might be the last time I get to hunt this bird. And then you get your butt.
Speaker 2:Well, well, good news is it ain't, yeah, good news, yeah. And the ones that are fun and late season ones are fine, but I like the early season ones too. I like them. I like trying to get first crack at them if I can.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because this, I mean, it can be a lot of adrenaline and then, you know, reestablishing that fire kind of deal. That's, that's fine and I'm looking forward to it. And I'm looking forward to hearing from a lot of folks who are also going to be in the woods this weekend and the coming weeks, of the other southern states and stuff like that. And we're in it, we're here, we made it, we survived. You know. All that's left now is to don the vest and let the gun, but we will hopefully maybe next week, depending on when the Joker airs it's on Monday, I don't know, but if it's on Thursday or Wednesday or whenever, like these past couple of weeks of being pretty at random, you know my good story to tell, may not my nine.
Speaker 2:I mean the forecast pretty pretty rough Pretty pretty rainy, yeah, but yep, we will see how that goes. We appreciate you all listening to the spring religion podcast. We'll catch you next week.
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